S04E06 - My Mum's Journey to Australia: A Refugee Story
Transcript
Jay Ooi
Hey listeners just a heads up that this episode contains references to suicide and violence so proceed with caution.
Hello and welcome to Shoes Off, stories about Asian Australian culture
Refugees have been painted a particular way by a lot of our politicians and commentators, but what is the actual experience of them? Well today’s episode is the story of one daughter of refugees and the journey of her parents to Australia. Here is My Mum's Journey to Australia: A Refugee Story by Monica Ly.
Monica Ly
I’m sitting in my parent’s shop, a Chinese-Cambodian restaurant. Dad is in the kitchen, silently prepping for the lunch sitting and mum is at the front-of-house, greeting customers, making drinks and bringing out food to the tables.
It’s a pretty familiar setting for me - Most of my younger years were spent sitting in the restaurant doing my homework or helping out whilst my parents ran the business and today, I’m here to spend some time with them, and eat some of my dad’s cooking. He brings out a whole fried fish cooked in his signature spicy sauce - one of my favourite dishes. This was my normal as a kid, but my parents’ journey here was anything but.
I want to ask my mum about her story, so we head back home and I sit down with her in our living room. There’s a buddhist shrine on one wall, and a traditional Cambodian painting on the other. I look at mum, she’s a strong, resilient woman, always happy and smiling. But behind that smile, there is an intricate story of fear, hope and change.
My mum was born in Saigon in the late 1960’s in the midst of the Vietnam War. She is one of 12 children and she left school at a very young age to support her family by selling goods on the street.
Mon
What business did you do?
Mrs Ly
I was on the street selling makeup, shoes and accessories. People didn't really have any money so they would buy it upfront and pay it later in increments - buy now, pay later. I'm not sure what it's called in Cantonese, I think we would have something similar in Australia as well. Every week, people get their salary and pay a portion. Every Saturday I would wait outside of their factory for them to pay me back.
Monica Ly
This was during an uncertain time after the war where economic hardship and corruption had become most people’s day-to-day. There were high taxes and restrictions on trade, businesses were confiscated and many people were sent to re-education camps. Life was tough. Growing up in this environment, mum always dreamt of a better future.
And then one day, the opportunity to change her life presented itself. Mum got connected to a ship owner. Back then, there were two ways to escape Vietnam - obtaining an exit permit from the Government, not affordable for the average person, or to engage with ship owners to secretly leave the country without documentation. Mum didn’t quite know what was involved with this, and it still cost a lot, but for many people looking to flee the country, it was the only option for them.
One night, mum was given the signal from the ship owner; a boat was coming that night and it was her chance to leave. My mum and aunty rushed to pack their things and snuck out of the house. She was 18 at the time and she was so scared she didn’t tell her family that she was leaving in case they would stop her because of how dangerous and impulsive it was.
Little did my mum know that it would be a long 10 years before they would see their family again.
Mon
How did you convince the smugglers to take you on the boat?
Mrs Ly
There was a person organising us, and they took us to a dark place near the ocean. We hid there, we were so scared that police would catch up. If the boat came, a light would shine and we would run onto the boat. People nearby saw, and weren't intending to come but they saw us so they decided to follow us. That's why there was so many people in the end on the boat
When it arrived, we all ran towards the boat. The boat contained about 340 people, and we didn’t even realise there was going to be so many people
Mon
How big was the boat?
Mrs Ly
I think it was 11 metres, it was so small, we had to squish in
Mon
Then, it was really small?
Mrs Ly
It was very small
Monica Ly
Picture it, a tiny worn down fishing boat, one that would comfortably fit maybe 15 people, had 340 people crammed shoulder to shoulder on it. It’s not a boat designed to sail the open waters, let alone for 4 days, yet here were all of these people, so desperate to find a better life for themselves and their family, that they get on this fishing boat in the hopes it will take them somewhere safe.
Mon
On the boat, what did you most remember?
Mrs Ly
I remembered I was so thirsty, there was no food and no water. We would put a bit of ocean water into our mouth, but it was so salty. There was no food, someone cooked really thin congee for us but there wasn't a lot of substance to it.
Monica Ly
The majority of those on board, including my mum, could not swim. On top of that, there was a constant and real threat of pirates. Yes, real life pirates, not like the ones you see in Disney movies. These pirates were common during this time, looking to rob and rape whoever is out on the open waters.
Having never experienced anything even close to this, it’s hard to imagine being separated from your family, out at sea without being able to swim, and then being ambushed by real life pirates.
Mon
Were there any pirates?
Mrs Ly
Yes, they did go past us, but we all hid in the hole. They didn't see us, they thought we were a fishing boat so they didn’t come over
Mon
Were the other people scared?
Mrs Ly
Yes, very scared. Everyone was hiding under the boat in the hole where the fishes were normally stored
Monica Ly
Unlike many other boats, thankfully, everyone survived this trip, eventually arriving in Indonesia, at a refugee camp in Galang. A refugee camp is like purgatory for asylum seekers - they’re not officially refugees yet, they’re just waiting to be processed and accepted as one.
Often these camps are not in the country that the asylum seekers will end up in, so they’re kind of in no man’s land. Conditions are poor, food is rationed, and you can’t officially work to get more food or supplies. Violence and rape - by refugees and guards - is a daily threat, and and there’s a lot of uncertainty felt by everyone as they are watched closely by the camp guards.
Mon
How was your living conditions in Galang?
Mrs Ly
It’s still scary to think about it today. Very pitiful conditions.
Mon
How many people living together?
Mrs Ly
Each room had 5 people in it. Every week, they gave us rations of food to eat. They gave us a little bit of rice, a little bit of beans and some cans of tuna. Sometimes they gave us oil to cook with, with some green beans. There wasn't really enough food. Every morning we had to go collect water to come back to cook and eat. At that place, the living conditions were horrible and scary. The guards had to watch us closely every day.
Mon
Did you regret leaving Vietnam?
Mrs Ly
No, not at all - we were very happy. A lot of people who tried to leave capsized and drowned
If they didn't drown they were caught by pirates. I felt so so lucky to be able to make it to Galang. So many females at camp weren't allowed in to the Big 3 country, so they died by suicide. At the camp, I saw many people die by suicide, it was horrible and scary. There were some people who poured oil on themselves and burnt themselves. A lot of the females hung themselves because they couldn't leave and they didn't want to go back to Vietnam, so they killed themselves. It was awful.
Monica Ly
The big 3 countries mum’s referring to are Australia, Canada, and the US. And you might be wondering, why would they end their own lives just because they couldn’t proceed to these countries?
Imagine leaving your whole life behind and risking everything because that seems like the only way for just a chance of a better future. Imagine the relief and joy you felt when your fishing boat makes it past pirates and you’re alive at a refugee camp. Then, after years there, you’re told that you can’t proceed any further and must head back to your home country.
It’s like a child who has escaped abusive parents, only to be told, actually, your parents are fine, we’re going to send you back.
It’s devastating, to put it mildly. Some had family back home counting on them, and some feared the consequences of fleeing when they were sent back. It was like they lost their purpose in life.
As the camps filled up, suicide by hanging or self-immolation became frequent by those who refused to be sent back to the country they had fleed. Some even attempted to sail directly to Australia, but were often caught and punished by the Indonesian police guarding the camp.
Mrs Ly
We didn't have a choice, the only way we could make it to one of the big 3 countries we had to continue
Monica Ly
Even though the conditions weren’t great, my mum held onto the hope of getting into a better country to build a better life. And this is where my dad came into the picture. He was born in Cambodia with 8 siblings, and made his way to Indonesia as a refugee as well.
Mon
How did you meet dad?
Mrs Ly
The camp was so small, we were bound to bump into each other. When we met, we didn't have any common language. He didn't know Cantonese, and I didn't know Teochew or Cambodian.
Mon
How did you talk to dad?
Mrs Ly
We studied a bit of English. People who interviewed us always asked us how we were able to have a relationship since we didn't have common language.
Mon
Then, was dad handsome?
Mrs Ly
Yes, your dad was most handsome at the camp.
Monica Ly
It’s weird to think about it, but dad was the hottie of Galang. Mum said he was very popular with the ladies, and got special treatment because of his fair skin.
Mrs Ly
When I was at Galang, there were many girls chasing your dad
He was very popular
Monica Ly
Relationships can be difficult, but if you think you’ve got yours hard, my mum and dad didn’t share a language in common when they first started dating. Their way of flirting was to point at food and eat.
My aunty didn’t approve of my mum dating my dad at first, considering he is Cambodian and couldn’t speak a word to them. But that didn’t stop dad. Over time, he started to pick up Cantonese so he could talk to my mum. Now that’s romance.
Mon
Did you get married?
Mrs Ly
At the camp, we did. Instead of a wedding reception, we had coffee
Mon
Did you wear a wedding dress?
Mrs Ly
No, we didn't have that at the camp.
Monica Ly
Soon after they got married, mum got pregnant with me. She says it was a tough time as a pregnant woman with very little food to eat, but soon after I was born, more good news followed.
Mon
What was your happiest memory?
Mrs Ly
I don't think there was any happy memory...
Mon
Then what about me?
Mrs Ly
*Laughs* - yes you
I had you and then a couple months later we went to Australia
Mon
When you received news that you could come to Australia, how did you feel?
Mrs Ly
I was so happy, I couldn't sleep. I felt so relieved, happier than winning the lottery.
Monica Ly
But their story doesn’t end with them arriving here in Australia, it was only the beginning.
In the year 1992, my mum and I finally arrived in Australia. I was still a baby. Dad and aunty weren't approved to come over yet, so it was just the two of us, and my mum couldn’t speak much English. Luckily, my dad’s brother was already in Australia, and helped us settle in. We lived around Cabramatta in Sydney where a lot of other Vietnamese refugees were already living, and my mum found work at a number of places, including a sewing factory where she was paid $4 an hour.
Mon
How was the first few days in Australia?
Mrs Ly
I always remember it was so cold. The first time in Australia was so cold, I wasn't used to it. You were always crying because it was cold.
Monica Ly
When aunty joined us in Australia, things were a lot better for my mum. She had someone to confide in and to help look after me while she was working. Then my dad also arrived a year later.
Mum was able to spend a bit of time learning English and dad found a job in a restaurant at Chinatown. When my brother was born we really started to feel like a complete family at home.
Thinking back, I still remember the small apartment we all lived in when I was younger. We couldn’t afford furniture so we had cardboard boxes repurposed as tables. Cabramatta, where we lived at a time, was infamous for its drug abuse. It wasn’t a wealthy area. I remember walking to the shops and having my mum smack my hand when I reached out to pick up a needle from the ground.
My parents had different jobs over the years, so we moved around a lot when I was a kid, I went to about 6 primary schools, sometimes only staying for a single month. But soon, with a few years of savings, my parents were able to buy a small house. Things were looking up and we really started to feel at home. Until there was a robbery. They broke into our home and took everything we had - including my mum’s jewellery and my dad’s favourite camcorder containing his most precious memories of us.
Mon
I remember we were robbed once.
Mrs Ly
Yes that’s right, we only just came back home from overseas and robbers broke into the glass house stole many of our jewellery.
Mon
How did you feel?
Mrs Ly
Heartbreak, we only just came back from overseas and brought the jewellery home with us.
Monica Ly
It was a harsh reality check for my parents and they realised they needed to make a big change in order to give our family a better life. So, after years trying to make ends meet in Sydney, my parents decided to take a risk to open their own restaurant. My dad could use his skills from working as a chef, and my mum had experience waitressing.
It was a tough time - the only place they could find that was willing to lease them a shop was in Wollongong, an hour and a half south of Sydney. Nevertheless we packed our bags, said goodbye to our friends and family and we all moved down south. If Cabramatta was like Vietnamese central, Wollongong was the opposite.
Mrs Ly
At the time, we looked so young and the agents there didn't want to lease the place to us
Monica Ly
I remember at the time I couldn’t understand why my parents would separate us from friends and family and take us to unfamiliar territory. Why were we leaving everything we knew, in order for them to work even more? They were never at home, it was just my brother and I.
Mrs Ly
But it was hard, we had to leave you and your brother at home without anyone supervising you. Monica was only 10 and had to look after her brother who was 6. Monica kept trying to convince him to eat! No one was around to look after the children Because of this, he loves you a lot. We were never at home.
Monica Ly
I went from being surrounded by an Asian community to being one of 4 Asians in my grade. It was the loneliest I have ever felt.
My parents’ English still wasn’t that great, so I had to become the de facto translator. Imagine a 12 year old going through utility bills, helping out on legal documents and doctor appointments. That was my job as the eldest daughter.
After a few years, I started to see how hard they were working and started to understand why. My parents got their business up and running and soon the norm was that we would come home from school, put down our backpacks and help out at the restaurant. I even had to teach my mum how to calculate percentages for things like surcharges, which seems so simple, but for someone who didn’t go to school, it wasn’t even a concept she was aware of. My parents worked 7 days a week at the restaurant for almost 2 decades to fund us through school and give us a better life. When I asked mum how they found the motivation to work so hard, she replied that her darkest and hardest days were already over. Working 7 days did not feel hard.
Every time I think about my parents’ story, my heart breaks a little. My dad likes to recall a time when he first took me out, just me and him. We went to Haymarket food court to get lunch. Unexpectedly, the fire alarm for the building went off - and my dad pulled me tightly to rush out of the building. He thought it was a bomb alert. It wasn’t until he looked around and saw people still calmly eating that he realised where he was - safe in Australia.
He recalls this story while laughing - but can you imagine the experiences he had in order to have this reaction?
My parents are incredibly hard working, but they’re also quiet and humble when it comes to their story. They’re afraid of being judged or being told that they don’t belong.
Even today, when you say the word refugee - it is usually not perceived very positively, or sometimes people just aren’t really sure how to respond. Sharing this story today, a part of me is afraid of how people would perceive me, and how people might change their opinions of me.
But I remember seeing Anh Do’s live show - The Happiest Refugee. There was so much that we could relate to, and he not only talked about how difficult it was, but also all the joy that he experienced as well. He made me think, hang on - why do I need to keep this a secret? Why do I need to feel ashamed or embarrassed?
My parents’ incredible story needs to be shared.
I take so much inspiration from my parents. My toughest days growing up do not even come close to my parent’s childhood in a war affected area. Seeing how driven they are and how hard they work is my inspiration daily. What’s the worst that can happen? - this is a question I find myself asking right before I make a big decision.
It’s inspired me to start my own businesses - because if my parents, the risk takers they are, can survive what they have, I can deal with my own challenges ahead.
Mon
What do you think of life now?
Mrs Ly
I really like it because you are both so big now. You studied well, I'm so happy. I feel like it was worth the money we spent for you to go to school. We are so happy today.
Mon
Do you feel like Australia is your home?
Mrs Ly
Yes. I would not go back to Vietnam.
Mon
When I opened my own business, how did you feel?
Mrs Ly
I feel so happy, I approve of this a lot.
Monica Ly
I look at my mum again in our living room and I see a strong, resilient woman who took risks and seized opportunities to make our lives better and make Australia our home. I am so grateful to my parents.
I’m proud to be an Australian, and I’m proud to be a daughter of refugees.
Mon
What makes you the most happy?
Mrs Ly
That you are married!
Mon
What about my brother?
Mrs Ly
We’re waiting for him to have a good girlfriend and get married too!
Mon
Anything else you want to say to us?
Mrs Ly
Have kids quickly!
Mon
Why are kids so important?
Mrs Ly
You guys are all so grown up now, we have nothing to do - so we want some grand kids to look after!
Jay Ooi
Hi Mon
Monica Ly
Hello
Jay Ooi
How’re you doing?
Monica Ly
Good.
Jay Ooi
How did you find the recording process?
Monica Ly
It was a little bit trickier than I thought. I didn't think I would get nervous. So as soon as the mic’s in front of me, I forgot how to talk.
Jay Ooi
That’s a good saying, forgot how to talk. How did you feel like sharing your story?
Monica Ly
It feels exciting and also, I'm a bit nervous of how people would receive the story, like, whether or not they'll be able to relate to it or whether or not they think it's a bit too personal to be sharing, like hearing it is, I don't know.
Jay Ooi
It does put things into perspective and that's kind of like a life that you grew up with, but I didn't grow up with that sort of thing. I was like, wow, this is really cool.
Monica Ly
Yeah, I thought also I one of the main reasons why I did want to share it because it's a story that not everyone encounters.
It feels like something that you only see in movies, but it's not. It's something that I actually grew up with and my parents actually lived. And so, yeah, it's something that I think needs to be shared.
Jay Ooi
And I think probably a comment that people say it is, “why don't they speak English? They go to these places so why aren’t they speaking English?” What are your thoughts on this?
Monica Ly
Learning a different language is actually a lot harder than you think. So, I don't know if you know this, but when refugees come over, the government actually grants them like X hours of free English classes.
And so, my parents always wanted to go to that, but they also had to go and get money and find money for us, so they didn't really have the luxury of just studying. So when my mum first came here and it was just her, she couldn't actually study, she just had to work in order to pay for me and pay for my child care, which took up basically a large proportion of her salary.
And then when my dad came, like she did have that chance to study. But, you know, it's about priorities. And at the time, like, what she could think about is just getting enough money. Like she didn't prioritise studying English. And by the time she had and enough to be able to prioritise English, it just felt like she couldn't learn anymore. Does that make sense? Like when you're learning something, it's more like you learn it at the younger age, and then by the time she's a bit older, she just doesn't have that mindset anymore.
Jay Ooi
Yeah, so I guess it's like, yes the government's providing you free English classes but they're not even thinking about that when they're just thinking about “how we're going to put food on the table?”
Exactly. Yeah. They just need to put a roof over our heads and have food on the table like that’s their number one priority.
Jay Ooi
How do you feel about where your parents have ended up today?
Monica Ly
I'm so proud of them. I think that they've done a really good job with what they had in order to give my brother and I step up in life and I feel like I owe them a lot.
Jay Ooi
And if there's like one thing you hope people get from listening to this story, what would it be?
Monica Ly
I want to share with them, like a different perspective and how other people have experienced life as well. And I hope that people reflect on their own life and then, you know, if there's something that they think is just causing them so much stress or something that they think that they can't handle, I want it to motivate people to, to go out and take a chance.
Credits
This episode was written by Monica Ly, and produced and edited by me, Jay Ooi.
Special thanks to Mrs Ly for sharing her story, the whole Ly family, Monica for translation help and last but not least, Pia Perversi-Burchall for voicing Mrs Ly. Pia makes an incredible podcast telling refugee stories called In My Country so please go check it out, it is some amazing work, there will be a link in the show notes at shoesoff.net
Some music by Avik Chari and the episode artwork is by Yelly Chuan.
What do you think of how Australia handles refugees? Let me know @shoesoffau on Facebook and Instagram.
If you liked Shoes Off please subscribe, we’re on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or wherever you’re listening to it right now, or head to shoesoff.net
You've also mentioned that your parents, they can't stop working. Like they've retired twice. Tell us about this.
Monica Ly
I feel like my parents are just a rare type of personality, where they've been working for so long, more than two decades just to provide for us that over the time they just prioritised working. They didn't prioritise making friends or having hobbies. So when they stop they don't really know what to do because there's only so much you can clean the house or cook, right? So they got really bored really quickly.
Jay Ooi
Do they have hobbies now?
Monica Ly
Oh, not really. I guess they got into Facebook. So they're playing like the little Facebook games.
